Modelautoforum.nl

117ayrton schreef:

Powersprint schreef:

rsh, deze zal je vast wel bekend voorkomen

heb zo de indruk dat deze op ene al capone gelijkt

1:18 24/7 schreef:Als je als Formule1 fan het goedkoopste kaartje koopt om in de bagger te mogen zitten voel je je altijd bekocht. Ik voelde me nogal bekocht toen op het allerlaatste rondje Kimi niet meer langs kwam...

Maar heb op TV inmiddels kunnen zien wat er verderop gebeurde, en dus dat Louis zn plaats weer afstond. Ik weet alleen niet hoe de regels daarover zijn (kan het nergens terugvinden) moet je je positie terug geven voor 1cm of enkele wagenlengtes en hoe lang dan?

Dus totdat ik daar duidelijkheid over heb ga ik er gewoon van uit dat de mensen die wél verstand hebben van de regels de juiste beslissing hebben genomen. Ik ben niet zo van de complottheorieën...

En dat er inderdaad na afloop een andere winnaar uit de bus komt is ook nooit leuk maar als er iemand zou winnen die de regels aan zn laars heeft gelapt dan zou je je ook bekocht voelen!

1:18 24/7 schreef:Dus totdat ik daar duidelijkheid over heb ga ik er gewoon van uit dat de mensen die wél verstand hebben van de regels de juiste beslissing hebben genomen. Ik ben niet zo van de complottheorieën...

First of all we don’t know what the investigation is about. One assumes it was the incident between Kimi and Lewis at the chicane. First of all, Lewis was ahead at the chicane and he got pushed wide. He definitely was in the lead coming out of the chicane, we immediately radioed him to let Kimi past. We let Kimi past and then overtook him again before the line.
Inevitably, we wanted to know whether we had actually, that was deemed to be a correction of that, and we checked with Charlie [Whiting], of course Charlie can only give an opinion, he’s not the stewards, but he gave an opinion that we had complied properly to the regulations. I would even dispute that there was any fault because we had the corner in the chicane, but even if we didn’t have the corner we let Kimi back in the lead.

Lauda: Hamilton did nothing wrong

Former world champion Niki Lauda has given his full backing to Lewis Hamilton over the Belgian Grand Prix chicane-cutting controversy - claiming the Briton did 'nothing wrong' with the way he drove.
Hamilton was handed a 25-second penalty for being judged to have gained an advantage when he cut a chicane in his battle with Kimi Raikkonen in the closing stages of the Spa-Francorchamps. It dropped him from first to third in the final result.
But Lauda believes the fact that Hamilton did hand the lead back to Raikkonen after the chicane incident meant he should have been in the clear.
"Hamilton did nothing wrong," said Lauda. "He was on the outside, and then let him (Raikkonen) by, which is the rule. Then afterwards he passed him. There was nothing wrong from Hamilton.
"There was nothing special in what happened. Hamilton did the right thing in letting him by, and then passed him. It was an absolutely perfect drive from Hamilton."
Lauda said that Hamilton had shown tremendous skill with his driving through the race, as he bounced back from a second lap spin to shadow and then close in on Raikkonen - who eventually spun off.
"I was disappointed that on the second lap with his spin, which was unnecessary," he said. "But in the end he made up for it in much more complicated conditions, and did a perfect race.
"It was very high risk at the end of the race for both of them, but he made fewer mistakes and won the race. He couldn't have done any better. He executed perfect car control when it was wet. He did a perfect job and won the race.
"You can only take your cap off to him, and congratulate him."
Lauda also reckons that the time had come for Raikkonen to play the support role to Felipe Massa in the championship battle now.
"He should now help Massa, which would be logical. It makes sense that from Monza on, they (Ferrari) make sure Massa always gets maximum points.
"Kimi has not done a good job this season. He has been quick in races, but not in qualifying. Even in practice here he was disappointing because he can't get the grip level together in one lap.
"In this race he did a perfect job, until the end when he threw it away."

McLaren in beroep tegen FIA-besluit - Team pikt straf voor Hamilton niet

McLaren gaat in beroep tegen de straf die de stewards van Spa-Francorchamps Lewis Hamilton na de Grand Prix van België hebben opgelegd.
McLaren legt zich niet neer bij straf Hamilton.Het team heeft laten weten dat een beroep tegen de 25 seconden tijdstraf voor Hamilton zal worden ingediend bij het International Court of Appeal, de beroepsinstantie die dergelijke zaken in de Formule 1 behandelt.
Het is niet bekend wanneer de beroepzaak zal dienen. Mocht McLaren in het gelijk worden gesteld, kan Hamilton alsnog tot winnaar van de Belgische Grand Prix worden uitgeroepen.

"I would be surprised if there was a penalty," Hamilton said before the stewards' decision. "This is motor racing and if there is a penalty something is wrong. It was fair and square, it would be absolutely wrong if that happens, but we know what they're like."

Everyone in Formula 1 knew exactly what Hamilton meant - and millions of spectators across the world as well. Whether the FIA likes it or not there is a widely-held belief that Ferrari is always favoured by the decision-makers, particularly if McLaren is involved. The FIA argues that this is not the case, but who believes it these days? There have been too many decisions like this. The actual decision is really irrelevant. Hopefully Hamilton will direct his frustrations and win the World Championship without needing the points he lost at Spa. The key question is whether the FIA can find a way to restore some faith in the sport. People are tired of such rubbish, particularly as the credibility of the FIA is at an all-time low after the Mosley Scandal.

We're not saying that there is a giant conspiracy against McLaren, but all too often it looks that way. It happens time and time again. And when the boot is on the other foot the decisions seem to be different. In F1 circles it is called "the red car rule". People just do not believe it any longer. And that is scary because if they stop believing in the sport, then we are lost. It is really not clear what Hamilton was supposed to do after the incident. He ran across the chicane and then carefully backed off and allowed Raikkonen to repass him.

...

In those wild laps Raikkonen did a number of things that might also have been punished. He appeared to use the high-friction run-off areas at Pouhon to gain advantage and close right up to Hamilton. He then clearly overtook Hamilton at a point where there was a waved yellow flag. He did not mean to do it, he was avoiding a collision with Nico Rosberg, who was rejoining the race after a spin, but it is also clear that Hamilton was doing everything he could do to avoid gaining an advantage from what he had done.

...

It is so sad that the day had to end as it did for it had been a super race. Hamilton led from the start but then had a quick spin at the start of the second lap that allowed Raikkonen to go ahead. Kimi had made no friends by forcing his way past team-mate Felipe Massa on the first lap, deliberately running wide on to the run-off area at La Source to gain an advantage on the run own the hill to Eau Rouge. Massa said he had been too cautious.

"It was pretty close," Massa said. "Kimi was so quick he was going to pass me easy, yet he started to close the line and we nearly touched wheel to wheel. I thought that was strange."

That looked like a falling out. Kimi has seemed asleep for much of this season but at Spa he seemed suddenly awake and ruthless. Or desperate.

...

It was an entertaining race which lit up like a firework at the end. Sadly the stewards threw a bucket of cold water over the whole event.

We can only hope that the FIA Court of Appeal will be a little more reasonable.

But few believe that will happen.

Eerlijk is eerlijk. Na het Champcar-fiasco eerder dit jaar, is mijn privé-interesse voor de eenzitterwereld aardig bekoeld. Politieke spelletjes en ondoorzichtige intriges schijnen vooral in deze takken van autosport hoogtij te vieren. Waarom? Omdat er nogal veel geld mee gemoeid gaat.

Gisteren zat ik na vele autosportweekends op locatie in mijn lokale kroeg voor het eerst sinds lange tijd op een groot scherm van de Formule 1 op Spa te genieten. Een bijzonder boeiende wedstrijd waarbij het er tussen de koplopers Kimi Raikkonen en Lewis Hamilton hard aan toe ging en waarbij de kijker dit keer niet op een “processional race” getrakteerd werd.

Ogen sluiten
Lewis Hamilton sneed ‘de Busstop’ af en werd daar na afloop voor bestraft met een penalty van 25 seconden. Maar waren er tijdens de wedstrijd niet meerdere lieden die onbestraft wegkwamen? Maar tegen die coureurs werd dan ook geen protest ingediend en de FIA stewards sloten hun ogen.

In Valencia a fortnight ago Felipe Massa was investigated for "unsafe release" from his Ferrari pit. The punishment normally would have been a 10-second stop-and-go penalty, which would have denied him victory. Instead, the stewards at the meeting later fined him €10,000 and allowed him to keep his win.

At Spa, three different stewards decided that Lewis Hamilton's transgression also merited a 10-second stop-and-go penalty, but that since the race was over he should receive a 25-second penalty which dropped him from first place to third.

1:18 24/7 schreef:Als je als Formule1 fan het goedkoopste kaartje koopt om in de bagger te mogen zitten voel je je altijd bekocht.

Markopolo schreef:

1:18 24/7 schreef:Dus totdat ik daar duidelijkheid over heb ga ik er gewoon van uit dat de mensen die wél verstand hebben van de regels de juiste beslissing hebben genomen. Ik ben niet zo van de complottheorieën...

En dat hebben ze dus blijkbaar niet En waar blijkt dat volgens jouw dan uit, dat ze een beslissing nemen waar jij het niet mee eens bent? Sarcase kom je altijd tegen, je gebruikt het zelf ook en als dan andere het gaan gebruiken mag het ineens niet, vind wel dat je onderbouwende argumenten moet hebben maar dat terzijde, maar als ik de FIA: Ferrari's International Assistence wil noemen, moet dat gewoon kunnen Tuurlijk, was ook niet tegen jou opzich maar gewoon het feit dat je iedere keer dat soort woordgrapjes op alle fora en ook deze tegenkomt. Daar wordt ik soms een beetje flauw van. De kracht van de herhaling zeker?

En over dat verstand niet gegrond is: Verstand niet gegrond? Die snap ik ff niet!?

-Ron Dennis/Charlie Withing:

First of all we don’t know what the investigation is about. One assumes it was the incident between Kimi and Lewis at the chicane. First of all, Lewis was ahead Nou wordt 'ie mooi! at the chicane and he got pushed wide. Volgens mij ging ie er zelf via de chicane langs, pushen heb ik niet gezien. Vanuit de onboard zou ik zelfs zeggen dat 'ie ook makkelijk gewoon weer achter Kimi had kunnen gaan hangen omdat ie de bocht toch al niet gehaald zou hebben (maar ja, dan had 'ie meer snelheid verloren...) He definitely was in the lead coming out of the chicane, we immediately radioed him to let Kimi past. We let Kimi past and then overtook him again before the line.
Inevitably, we wanted to know whether we had actually, that was deemed to be a correction of that, and we checked with Charlie [Whiting], of course Charlie can only give an opinion, he’s not the stewards, but he gave an opinion that we had complied properly to the regulations. I would even dispute that there was any fault because we had the corner in the chicane, but even if we didn’t have the corner we let Kimi back in the lead.

-Niki Lauda: Daar ga ik niet op reageren, die roept zoveel, is net een Alonzo!

Lauda: Hamilton did nothing wrong

Former world champion Niki Lauda has given his full backing to Lewis Hamilton over the Belgian Grand Prix chicane-cutting controversy - claiming the Briton did 'nothing wrong' with the way he drove.
Hamilton was handed a 25-second penalty for being judged to have gained an advantage when he cut a chicane in his battle with Kimi Raikkonen in the closing stages of the Spa-Francorchamps. It dropped him from first to third in the final result.
But Lauda believes the fact that Hamilton did hand the lead back to Raikkonen after the chicane incident meant he should have been in the clear.
"Hamilton did nothing wrong," said Lauda. "He was on the outside, and then let him (Raikkonen) by, which is the rule. Then afterwards he passed him. There was nothing wrong from Hamilton.
"There was nothing special in what happened. Hamilton did the right thing in letting him by, and then passed him. It was an absolutely perfect drive from Hamilton."
Lauda said that Hamilton had shown tremendous skill with his driving through the race, as he bounced back from a second lap spin to shadow and then close in on Raikkonen - who eventually spun off.
"I was disappointed that on the second lap with his spin, which was unnecessary," he said. "But in the end he made up for it in much more complicated conditions, and did a perfect race.
"It was very high risk at the end of the race for both of them, but he made fewer mistakes and won the race. He couldn't have done any better. He executed perfect car control when it was wet. He did a perfect job and won the race.
"You can only take your cap off to him, and congratulate him."
Lauda also reckons that the time had come for Raikkonen to play the support role to Felipe Massa in the championship battle now.
"He should now help Massa, which would be logical. It makes sense that from Monza on, they (Ferrari) make sure Massa always gets maximum points.
"Kimi has not done a good job this season. He has been quick in races, but not in qualifying. Even in practice here he was disappointing because he can't get the grip level together in one lap.
"In this race he did a perfect job, until the end when he threw it away."

-McLaren: Die zijn het er niet mee eens? Goh!

McLaren in beroep tegen FIA-besluit - Team pikt straf voor Hamilton niet

McLaren gaat in beroep tegen de straf die de stewards van Spa-Francorchamps Lewis Hamilton na de Grand Prix van België hebben opgelegd.
McLaren legt zich niet neer bij straf Hamilton.Het team heeft laten weten dat een beroep tegen de 25 seconden tijdstraf voor Hamilton zal worden ingediend bij het International Court of Appeal, de beroepsinstantie die dergelijke zaken in de Formule 1 behandelt.
Het is niet bekend wanneer de beroepzaak zal dienen. Mocht McLaren in het gelijk worden gesteld, kan Hamilton alsnog tot winnaar van de Belgische Grand Prix worden uitgeroepen.

-Verschillende F1-sites:
Zie bv. onderstaande tekst.

-de halve wereld (Yep, incl. Ferrari-fans)
Zie verschillende fora's

vinden het allemaal van niet. (ok, nu valt er niet veel waarde te hechten aan de fora's, maar de rest geeft toch wel stof tot nadenken.

Grandprix.com:

"I would be surprised if there was a penalty," Hamilton said before the stewards' decision. "This is motor racing and if there is a penalty something is wrong. It was fair and square, it would be absolutely wrong if that happens, but we know what they're like."

Everyone in Formula 1 knew exactly what Hamilton meant - and millions of spectators across the world as well. Whether the FIA likes it or not there is a widely-held belief that Ferrari is always favoured by the decision-makers, particularly if McLaren is involved. The FIA argues that this is not the case, but who believes it these days? There have been too many decisions like this. The actual decision is really irrelevant. Hopefully Hamilton will direct his frustrations and win the World Championship without needing the points he lost at Spa. The key question is whether the FIA can find a way to restore some faith in the sport. People are tired of such rubbish, particularly as the credibility of the FIA is at an all-time low after the Mosley Scandal.

We're not saying that there is a giant conspiracy against McLaren, but all too often it looks that way. It happens time and time again. And when the boot is on the other foot the decisions seem to be different. In F1 circles it is called "the red car rule". People just do not believe it any longer. And that is scary because if they stop believing in the sport, then we are lost. It is really not clear what Hamilton was supposed to do after the incident. He ran across the chicane and then carefully backed off and allowed Raikkonen to repass him.

...

In those wild laps Raikkonen did a number of things that might also have been punished. He appeared to use the high-friction run-off areas at Pouhon to gain advantage and close right up to Hamilton. He then clearly overtook Hamilton at a point where there was a waved yellow flag. He did not mean to do it, he was avoiding a collision with Nico Rosberg, who was rejoining the race after a spin, but it is also clear that Hamilton was doing everything he could do to avoid gaining an advantage from what he had done.

...

It is so sad that the day had to end as it did for it had been a super race. Hamilton led from the start but then had a quick spin at the start of the second lap that allowed Raikkonen to go ahead. Kimi had made no friends by forcing his way past team-mate Felipe Massa on the first lap, deliberately running wide on to the run-off area at La Source to gain an advantage on the run own the hill to Eau Rouge. Massa said he had been too cautious.

"It was pretty close," Massa said. "Kimi was so quick he was going to pass me easy, yet he started to close the line and we nearly touched wheel to wheel. I thought that was strange."

That looked like a falling out. Kimi has seemed asleep for much of this season but at Spa he seemed suddenly awake and ruthless. Or desperate.

...

It was an entertaining race which lit up like a firework at the end. Sadly the stewards threw a bucket of cold water over the whole event.

We can only hope that the FIA Court of Appeal will be a little more reasonable.

But few believe that will happen.

Lekker tendentieus stukje!

Autosport.nl:

Eerlijk is eerlijk. Na het Champcar-fiasco eerder dit jaar, is mijn privé-interesse voor de eenzitterwereld aardig bekoeld. Politieke spelletjes en ondoorzichtige intriges schijnen vooral in deze takken van autosport hoogtij te vieren. Waarom? Omdat er nogal veel geld mee gemoeid gaat.

Gisteren zat ik na vele autosportweekends op locatie in mijn lokale kroeg voor het eerst sinds lange tijd op een groot scherm van de Formule 1 op Spa te genieten. Een bijzonder boeiende wedstrijd waarbij het er tussen de koplopers Kimi Raikkonen en Lewis Hamilton hard aan toe ging en waarbij de kijker dit keer niet op een “processional race” getrakteerd werd.

Ogen sluiten
Lewis Hamilton sneed ‘de Busstop’ af en werd daar na afloop voor bestraft met een penalty van 25 seconden. Maar waren er tijdens de wedstrijd niet meerdere lieden die onbestraft wegkwamen? Maar tegen die coureurs werd dan ook geen protest ingediend en de FIA stewards sloten hun ogen.

En in vergelijking met een andere race is dat verstand ook ver te zoeken eigenlijk:

In Valencia a fortnight ago Felipe Massa was investigated for "unsafe release" from his Ferrari pit. The punishment normally would have been a 10-second stop-and-go penalty, which would have denied him victory. Instead, the stewards at the meeting later fined him €10,000 and allowed him to keep his win.

At Spa, three different stewards decided that Lewis Hamilton's transgression also merited a 10-second stop-and-go penalty, but that since the race was over he should receive a 25-second penalty which dropped him from first place to third.

Zelfde straf, maar met andere uitkomst. Nogmaals, lekker met 2 maten meten Zelfde straf, ander vergrijp... En andere stewards?

Als dit 1 incident was geweest was het waarschijnlijk nu al bekoeld, maar omdat dit veel en veel vaker voorkomt krijg je dit soort reacties, oftewel complot-theorieen

1:18 24/7 schreef:Als je als Formule1 fan het goedkoopste kaartje koopt om in de bagger te mogen zitten voel je je altijd bekocht.

Das dan lomp als je dan alsnog een kaartje koopt, van mij hoef je niet naar de Formule 1 En een echte fan gaat door weer en wind, mijn theorie is dat jij dan geen echte fan bent En ik ben maar alleen dus zit er niemand in het complot

Markopolo schreef:Ps. Nog even een antwoord hierop graag:

Positie van Hamilton vlak voor de "Bus-stop": Vlak achter Kimi.

Positie van Hamilton vlak voor La Source: Vlak achter Kimi.

Zie ik dat voordeel nu over het hoofd

En over dat verstand niet gegrond is: Verstand niet gegrond? Die snap ik ff niet!?